Because people at Weichert Realtors tried to bully us, and we're sick of it.
John Geaney, the manager of the Upper Montclair office, was coercive and unethical.
We escalated to Larry Mueller, a VP at corporate. He didn't listen to us, he was belligerent, and he tried to stonewall us.
Our agent isn't perfect, but we're not complaining about her. We'll call her "R" throughout these pages.
They pretty much have us over a barrel -- our listing contract runs until mid-September 2006, and they refuse to release us from it.
Fine. Maybe we're legally bound to them for a while. John and Larry even seem to enjoy telling us that there's nothing we can do about it. The contract, though, doesn't bind us to stay quiet. Since this is the only recourse we have, it's the recourse we're taking.
We understand that there are two sides to every story. If they want to put a rebuttal on Weichert.com, then, in the interest of fair play, we'll add a link to it here.
Please
read, and feel free to share with your friends, blog about it, link to us, and
add your comments to this site.
Jake and Sue Freivald
P.S. Although we are grateful for all of the support we have been getting, please, please do not do anything illegal. I'm saying this in all seriousness, without a wink: I would hate for our overall message to get drowned out by accusations of illegal activity. Thanks for understanding.
As It Stands Now
Background If You Want It
I've broken the story up into several parts:
Background, including our first encounter with John Geaney
John Geaney: Coercion attempt
Larry Mueller: Our attempt to escalate the problem
Email contact with Jim Weichert until the present (this page)
For all the details, start with the
background. You'll eventually get led back to this page.
If you don't want all the details, start right here. There's a synopsis of events, and links to relevant information if you want to dig deeper.
Why email, instead of a phone call? If you read the background, you know that Larry Mueller had promised us that we'd never get higher in the organization than him. I'd leave a message for Jim, and Larry would return it.
But who knows what Larry is telling Jim? I wouldn't put up a site like this without being sure that the president of the company had a chance to resolve the problem first. The only option I had, then, was email. This is what I sent, with a few side notes and links added to flesh out the scenario.
*****
Jim,
From their Web site: "Each WEICHERT® franchised office is independently owned and operated." My beef is with the people I've named. The people in your local office may be quite nice; just pray that everything goes well so nothing has to get escalated.We want out of the our [sic] contract with your company. Our dissatisfaction stems from the unprofessionalism of your staff and our strong sense that they are not working in our best interest.
Specifically:
There's a lot behind this. When John Geaney pretends that it's our fault that the house didn't move, he conveniently ignores the fact that his office failed to do its job. Details here.* For five weekends this spring, Weichert failed to provide open houses and advertising for our house at [address removed] in West Orange, NJ.
This was at the meeting in January, well before they had missed all of the open houses, as detailed on the John Geaney page.* John Geaney demanded a listing price reduction that even his own realtor thought was unreasonable.
This was well after the January meeting, in June, after they had already missed five open houses. Again, details are here.* When we tried to reduce the price, but not to the level he wanted, he rejected the terms and said that he would not advertise it or run open houses unless we agreed to his price.
* We told him that, if he wasn't going to market the house, we wanted out of the contract. He refused to release us.
We're being advised that perhaps it's not technically "blackmail", but it was unethical coercion. Either way, I would hope that Jim Weichert would respond to clients who felt that their office manager had tried to blackmail them, regardless of the technical legal language.That was blackmail: he wouldn't let us go anywhere else _or_ do anything to move the house unless we kowtowed to his demands.
Such unprofessionalism is unworthy of the REALTOR brand, and we are likely moving forward with an official complaint describing this as a violation of Article 1 of the National Association of Realtors Code of Ethics.
Furthermore:
Detailed on the Larry Mueller page. I don't mind that he checked with John before reacting; but his reaction was out of line.* Larry Mueller treated us with hostility. Originally he said he wouldn't discuss the issue until he had talked to John. The next day, he refused even to let us speak: he continually said "let me finish" without ever providing an opportunity for us to discuss our side of the story. While technically not unethical, this was one of the rudest responses to a customer complaint I have ever seen.
* After this conversation, Larry took control of our account personally, explicitly telling us that we would never get to anyone higher in the organization and that even our realtor was no longer allowed to negotiate with us.
* He also refused to let us out of our contract.
There is no question that we feel that we are "stuck with" Weichert at this point -- hardly the impression that you would like our neighbors to have about your company. We reject their intimidation tactics, their stonewalling, and their arrogance. We hope you do, too.
We want out of our contract. Please advise us as quickly as possible about what you're willing to do in this regard.
Thank you,
Jake and Sue Freivald
Jim Ignores Us, Larry Eventually Responds: 7/27/2006
We didn't get any response that day. The next morning at around 8:00, I sent a follow-up.
Jim,
Still no response from you. I'd like a decision, please.
Thank you,
Jake Freivald
What follows is a transcript of the voice mail I got that morning.
Yes, hi, Mister Freivald, this is Larry Mueller from Weichert Realtors. It is Thursday morning, about 10:30.
I saw your emails, and Jim asked me to give you a call again to just reaffirm with you that yes, in fact, it is I that you will be dealing with going forward. I've spoken with [R]. Unfortunately, I do understand that the transaction that you were working on has fallen apart. I also know from [R] that she is planning to do an open house next week, and that we are putting the house in for advertising and marketing, and that we will continue to try to sell your house between now and the expiration of your listing.
And so, just to make it clear, which I thought we had in our last conversation, no, we are not releasing your listing, and yes, we will continue to honor the contract moving forward to sell your house.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact me 973 ### ####. Thank you.
Update: 7/28/2006, 10:50 AM
I just got a call from Larry Mueller of Weichert Realtors.
He said he has received "a few of the emails" and doesn't know whether I want him to respond to them, to give them facts about his side of the story, or whatever -- but, he said, that doesn't change anything.
I said, "Larry, I didn't even ask them to send you anything. I'm disgusted with you. I have things to do. I gotta go." And then I hung up.
The funny thing -- and the thing he probably doesn't get -- is that I really didn't ask people to send him emails (though I'm grateful that people have done so), and I didn't think I was going to strongarm him into granting any concessions.
This really isn't about the contract or the money at this point.
This is about the way he and John tried to intimidate us, to make us feel helpless. The way he spoke to my wife. The way he wanted R, who has actually stood by us (albeit imperfectly), to eat her commissions, while neither he nor John's office would do anything to set things right.
Those things can't be undone. They don't go away with concessions.
If you're reading, Larry: I don't care if this changes anything or not. You do your thing, and I'll do mine.
Update: 7/30/2006
She may have intended to have an open house this weekend, but there wasn't one. After the last deal fell through, R didn't get the advertising done in time.
Update: 8/2/2006
It looks like there are a few offers coming in. Mostly low-balls, including one that's coming back at the same price they did a few months ago.
It's worth noting that we haven't had an open house since June.
Update to the update: I just added a counter at 4:12 PM to keep track of our visitors. Thanks for coming!
Some Site Traffic Feedback:
*****
9/29/2006
Sold at last. I'm still angry at Weichert Realtors, and it steams me that the management of that company gets $10,000 in commissions.
8/24/2006
Traffic is good: we've added almost a thousand new visitors over the past four days.
I worry whenever I see reactions like that of Antonio from Bloomfield from this morning on the comments page. Not because he calls me a whining calculating ignorant cry-baby -- I've got brothers, do you think I haven't been called worse? :) -- but because he misses the point. He says:
I would of taken steps against Weichart (a rather obtuse choice of a realtor) rather than worry about individuals. Your contract is between you and Weichart, not you and the agent or Larry or so on...
I am definitely not happy with being left in the contract, but, as is fully detailed
here and elsewhere, it isn't the contract alone that makes Weichert suck. It's the specific people who treated us as they did: John, Larry, and (by not caring) Jim. People are the business. And Jim Weichert knows that:
he said himself, "People buy people before they buy a product or service."
By the way, Antonio, why did you say that Weichert is a "rather obtuse choice of a realtor?" Do you have a story to tell?
On another note, thanks to all of you who are posting to the comments page. Also remember that any blog entries or Web sites that link to this page help us in our search engine rankings, so please feel free to add links in your blog entires and comments on other blogs.
Thanks!
All Quiet on the Western (Orange) Front
It has been a busy couple of days for other tasks -- I'm traveling, among other things -- and today is the last day of the attorney review period for our offer, so I don't have a lot to say.
Some people have asked me if Weichert knows about the site. We've seen some traffic over the past few days from their Morris Plains HQ, and from somewhere near Union, NJ. I didn't try to place any demands on them, though (Larry seems to like to say "this doesn't change anything", so I didn't try to change anything for him with respect to this site), and I don't know what options they're considering. I haven't heard from them directly.
Update: 8/8/2006
I've been advised -- not by a lawyer, but I'm listening all the same -- that the term "blackmail" may not be technically appropriate for what John Geaney tried to do. I've therefore removed it from the site and replaced it with some form of "to coerce" everywhere except in the place where I quote my email to Jim Weichert.
This reflects my general attitude about this site: anything that should be corrected will be corrected, and publicly. If Weichert Realtors can show that I've made any error of fact, I'll change the site to reflect the problem, and apologize if appropriate. And, as I have said from the beginning, if they have a different view of what happened then I'll post a link on this site to their rebuttal on Weichert.com.
Update: 8/7/2006, Evening
I just responded to the comments on the
Northern New Jersey Real Estate Bubble Web site. (Grim's readers are voracious, and now account for the vast majority of visitors.) I'm posting my response in its entirety here, lightly edited to fix some lousy grammar. Warning: it's long...
Hi all,
I'm Jake of whyweichertsucks.com. I want to thank you for your interest in the situation, whether you're pro or con me personally, and to answer some of the questions that have been asked here.
I've broken this into sections.
1. The nature of the grievance.
Some people seem to think that I put up the site because I didn't get the price I wanted for my house. That's not really the case.
the branch manager threatened to reject the reduction that we and our realtor agreed to; and then to refuse to run open houses or market it because, at that price, it wouldn't sell -- so it wouldn't be worth it to him.
Nobody's happy to see a house go for less than they wanted, but I knew in November that I had just bought a house at a high price, and that I was going to sell my old one at a low price. If that had been all that happened, we wouldn't be discussing this.
2. Price
I'm not a real estate pro, and I didn't really even watch the market until I had a house to sell. I have only one indicator at my disposal to determine what "the right price" is: what the market bears. For most of the time that it has been listed, this house has been the lowest-priced house in its area.
The anonymous poster who claimed familiarity with my house was most aggressive, so lets start with his/her post.
1.) The house was over priced to begin with--much better > homes off the main street at $445K
That's $85,000 more than we were asking, and we are accepting an even lower price. It's true that you can get much better if you're willing to pay 23% more, but I'm not sure how that's relevant.
2.) House in on a main street--heavy track. Always expect > less!
This house has been priced less than anything surrounding it for months, often much lower.
The house across the street from ours just went a few months ago for just under $500K, at a time when we were asking $380K. There are differences, of course -- that house was updated, and its driveway is on the side street -- but the point remains that we already expected less for a variety of reasons.
3.) If you don't update your house, then how can you compete? The panelling is what? 1950s? > 4.) Neustral colors work for everyone--buy a gallon of > paint! what a novel idea!
1970's, probably :) and the pictures are out of date. That upstairs section has been fully repainted for several months. I actually think it looks less warm, but to each his own.
The real question, though, is "compete with what"? The price was always the lowest in a fairly large radius, and we've gotten offers well above what we're getting now; they've just fallen through.
> The house is probably worth $285.
I can only accept this if you're working on some esoteric formula for "worth" that differs from "what the market will bear." If you really think that the house should only _get_ $285K, then, with all due respect, you clearly don't know this market.
> Has is sold? I believe it has been on the market forever!
We went under contract (again) this evening. We had an offer for $370 in March, one for $365, one for $355, and the most recent one. (I don't know the rules -- am I allowed to disclose that price yet?) Each has fallen through for one reason or another, but the fact remains that these are the prices that the market was bearing at the time. I'm not sure what else I should go by: on what other basis should I rationally adjust my pricing?
Anyway, yes, we listed it in November because we had just closed on our new house in October. (Remember that we have a big family, and we couldn't risk selling the old place without having a spot to park us and our six kids.) The listing was "refreshed" in March. During the spring it was definitely underexposed, and you can't sell anything if people aren't brought to it.
3. My attitude
A different anonymous poster said:
> I would disagree, my dealings with Weichert, in general, > have been fairly positive. ... It probably depends on what > office you are working with.
My motto is "it's all about the guy" -- the specific person you're working with can make all the difference in the world.
As things start to escalate, though, people higher up should be able to solve more problems, not cause them. John Geaney of the Upper Montclair office was the unethical party; Larry Mueller, the regional VP, didn't help solve the problem and instead was a jerk to my wife, and Jim Weichert just doesn't care. The latter two faults are less egregious than John's, but they still aren't good business practices.
> The seller, in this particular case, is at fault. Peoples > expectations have just become unrealistic. Yeah, you're > neighbor got a great price on his place 2 months ago. > Well TOUGH! You aren't getting that price, so accept what > you are getting.
I would accept this if we weren't already the lowest priced house in a sizeable radius, but it's still not the nature of the grievance. If this were just about price, I wouldn't have a Web site up.
Someone else said:
> 2. The seller doesn't want to hear that he should expect > to net 15% less in the gross sales price than expected.
It's true that I don't want to hear this, but I have tried to be reasonable about what the market was bearing at the time. I suggested a reduction to my realtor first, for instance.
Weichert's not innocent in that [EDIT: i.e., in the lower price that I ultimately had to accept], because they underexposed my house in the Spring. There were mitigating personal circumstances with my realtor that cause me to not harbor a grudge against her, but things could have been much better.
But that's not the point of the site: its point is that John Geaney threatened me with the loss of thousands in mortgage payments, and his regional VP rudely stonewalled us when we tried to complain.
===== 4. Contracts -----
> By the way, when you sign a contract, you should read the > fine print.
This is the thing I kick myself most for, and also one of the reasons I'm most upset with our realtor. We trusted her, and she didn't make it clear that this was an extension to our exclusivity. I doubt that she intended it, but that's the way it was anyway. As someone said:
> That really "terrific" agent R("you buy the people") > sounds like she's a nice person who doesn't cover contract > details. She didn't do her job. Either that, or they do > good cop, bad cop there.
I'm usually a stickler for contracts, too, but we were in a hurry, and haste makes waste and all that. I've got nobody to blame but myself for that one.
> I'm quite surprised they weren't let out of the listing.
So was I. I think it made better business sense for them to cut their advertising losses if they thought I was a crazy client who overvalued his house. Even if they end up quashing me like a little bug, their legal fees alone will cost them more [EDIT: than the amount of advertising money they would have lost if they had released us from the contract].
I seriously wonder whether it's not a power trip, but I don't know these people well enough to say.
> I think one of the words they use on their site is ill- > advised.
Which word is that? I'll happily change things if I'm saying something the wrong way.
===== 5. Miscellaneous -----
> Can you not have multiple agents? If one doesn't work, > make a contract with another.
I spoke to another agent, and they said they were bound ethically and legally not to work with us while we were under contract with Weichert.
> 1. The office manager is trying to generate sales/revenue > so he is pushing the seller to drop the price in order to > move the transaction along.
Several people have commented that the office manager and I have different goals. I agree, and acknowledge that any business transaction is a compromise between parties with different goals.
I don't object to his desire for a lower price. I object to his use strongarm tactics to force me to agree.
=====
This is probably a lot longer than anyone really wants, but there it is. I'll also post this to the whyweichertsucks.com so that everyone can benefit, and if anyone has other specific questions or comments I'll answer them as best I can.
Regards, Jake
Update: 8/7/2006
I found this choice quote from
Jim Weichert today: "People buy people before they buy a product or service." That's why I went with R at first, Jim, and that's why I now repudiate John, Larry, and you.
Anyway, there was an open house yesterday, but very little traffic. R said it might be that way; the season isn't great for foot traffic right now. I haven't yet gotten a paper to see whether advertising was done as promised, but I'll check that out today.
We currently have three options:
Pull the house from the market until mid-September for a guaranteed loss of mortgage payments and relatively strong potential for additional price deflation.
Let R continue to work the house for a higher price until September, with high risk of additional mortgage payment loss and relatively strong potential for additional price deflation.
Let the vultures feast (though even this option isn't risk-free).
Given all of that, we're opting for the lattermost. We're accepting an offer today, unfortunately, to try to get out from under this boat anchor.
What's most frustrating about this is that I hear John's smug little voice in my head saying that if we had followed his advice earlier on, we'd have gotten this over with months ago for the same price. I know, as does anyone who has followed this listing, that the house was underexposed: we could have had it done months ago at a higher price if everything had been done right.
But arguing that point won't save me thousands in mortgage payments.
----------
The unanimous ruling by the three-judge court reinstates a lawsuit against Weichert Realtors by a couple who thought they were buying a house in the "more prestigious" Montville section of Montville Township, Morris County.
In fact, the house was located in the township's Towaco section, according to the ruling. It added that the buyers, Theodore and Francis Vagias, discovered that when "they were unable to send their son to the highly rated elementary school in Montville."
Update: 8/4/06
R is back from London. She told me that they normally only do advertising in either the New York Times or in the Star-Ledger, but not both, and it's only for the date of the open house. She put the advertising in herself, and I trust her on that.
John Geaney called to say the same basic stuff about advertising. He also said that the picture was corrected. He was perfectly polite. He either didn't notice or didn't want to let on that I had sent the email from the whyweichertsucks gmail account.
Update: 8/3/06
R is on vacation in London, so another realtor is acting as her surrogate for a few days.
I spoke to her last night: there are now two offers on the table for about $340,000. Clearly, they want to close the deal, and so do I; but both of these offers are retreads. We haven't had an open house since June. I want the house to get at least some exposure before I accept an offer out of desperation.
So we're holding off until we see what happens over the weekend. Of course, this is a lousy weekend for open houses -- remember all those we missed in the spring? -- so we may not get anywhere, but I want to at least try.
I'm waiting for a call back from R's surrogate to see whether the advertising was actually put in for this weekend. She said she'd check this morning. Even if she comes back with a "yes", I'm going to have to buy the Newark Star-Ledger and the New York Times to verify.
-----
It's 1:00PM now. R's surrogate says that "advertising is in", which apparently means the Star-Ledger but not the New York Times. She also mentioned something -- maybe the term was "leaflet"? -- that it was in, maybe like those things they hand out at grocery stores.
The offerers know that they're in competition, but I think it would be unethical to say more than that.
-----
Where the hell is my picture? [Now it's up, although they had to correct it.] The realtor had all of the photos I've posted
here, including the one to the right, but look
here (look for "[address removed after sale]") and
here -- where is the photo?
-----
At 1:45, I sent this to Larry and John, cc:ing Jim Weichert:
Larry and John,
Two issues.
1. Our listing on Weichert.com has no photo.
You've had pictures for months. I have attached the one that's currently being used for our MLS listing. How come there's nothing on Weichert.com?
2. I talked to [R's surrogate], and she said that we have advertising in place with the Star-Ledger (at a minimum, though it wasn't clear to me if there are other media in which you advertise) for this weekend's open house.
I checked on nj.com, where the realty listings for the Star-Ledger are normally released, and I saw nothing yet.
I called the Star-Ledger, and they had nothing for this Sunday, but I couldn't tell whether advertising would have started earlier or not.
Please provide me with details of which outlets are being used to advertise this open house, and on which dates.
Thanks.
Your client,Jake Freivald
I got a voicemail from John Geaney:
Jake, this is John Geaney with Weichert Realtors in Upper Montclair. Just giving you a call, two things, wanted to let you know that the picture is up on Weichert.com plus some additional pictures and we have advertising in place in the Star-Ledger for your open house this Sunday. Okay? If you have any questions, give me a call, 973 746 1515. Thank you.
Indeed, the photo is up, and some additional photos besides. Unfortunately, he didn't use the photo I attached, which R and I had agreed was more flattering to the house. I replied by email at around 5:00 PM.
John,
Thanks for the follow-up phone call.
Two items:
1. Although I appreciate the fact that there are now pictures of the property on Weichert.com, R and I agreed months ago (with the input of another realtor as well) that the main photo you have used doesn't show off the house very well. Please replace it with the photo R and I agreed on, which I have reattached to this email.
2. Advertising.
A. I think I understand you to mean that there will be an ad running in this Sunday's paper for the open house that is supposed to take place that same day. Is that the case? Is that the standard way you advertise an open house?
I would have thought that you would want to run something during the week as well, to give people time to plan, but I'm no expert. Please advise. B. I spoke to the woman at the Star-Ledger this morning, and gave her the Upper Montclair office's phone number as the billing phone number for the ad I was looking for. It sounded as though there was an account based on that number, but there was no ad for [address]. Will you please provide me with an identifier so that I can verify the ad through the Star-Ledger?
Thanks.
Your client, Jake Freivald
The Site is Retired
I'm still not happy with Weichert Realtors -- they've done nothing to make up for the way they treated us -- but I'm not going to keep the whole story up here any more.
***********
End Of Revisting this Realtor Sucks Experience...
Realtors, the Local Association and NAR never do
anything to make up for the Damage thier Realtors Do.
They are A Billion Dollar Business and there is No Way
they will let a little thing like Consumer Protection Get in their way.
Crystal L. Cox ~ Broker Owner
Real Estate Whistleblower
Read more...
